John Grant dials in from Reykjavík, Iceland, where he has lived since moving from Colorado in 2011. Our conversation begins on a light note, with him complimenting the scenery and noting how different it is from America. The tone becomes darker as the topics shift to American politics and Donald Trump, who published The Art of the Deal in 1987—the inspiration behind the title of Grant’s album, The Art of the Lie. Grant will be performing the album at Melbourne Recital Centre this week. The record marries folk, electronic and orchestral elements, which he first began incorporating early in his career as the frontman of The Czars. Softly spoken and sincere, Grant reflects on the album with introspection and depth—qualities he believes America is increasingly losing in a culture driven by political division, materialism and a lack of empathy.

MAEVE SULLIVAN How are you feeling about coming to Australia for the show? What have you been up to in preparation?

JOHN GRANT Good, I’ve been getting ready. I’m finishing up a project and just tying up some loose ends. I’ve been practicing the piano and the pieces that I’m going to play.

MS Do you practice every day?

JG No, just before I tour. If I’m not touring, I don’t play every day. I’ve been doing a lot of touring lately, so I’ve been doing a lot of practicing.

MS You moved to Iceland in 2011. What is it like there?

JG The nature is beautiful, and the communities are quite small. We are really in the air up here. It’s fresh and crisp and clean. It’s been snowy lately, which I really love. I suppose the special thing about Iceland is the landscape. I’ve really enjoyed learning the language. Everybody does speak English here, so it sometimes feels very much like America. I grew up in Colorado, where there’s a lot of mountains and a lot of beautiful scenery. But if you look around here for a second, you realise that you’re in a completely different place.

MS You’ve grown up and moved to places surrounded by nature. Do you think this has directly influenced your creative process? Have you noticed a difference in your work since being based in Iceland?

JG I’m not sure if I would actually be able to tell if it has. I don’t feel like it’s really changed the way I do things. My second solo record, Pale Green Ghosts, has the sound of Biggi Veira from GusGus all over it. My sound has some remnants of Iceland. 

MS That makes sense since you’ve described your work in the past as emotional and internal. Rather than responding to your surroundings, the scenery, the world around you, or your community, would you say it's more about how you exist within that environment? Is it more inward-focused?

JG Yes, I think so.

MS What inspired the title of The Art of a Lie?

JG It comes from Donald Trump’s book, The Art of the Deal.

MS Oh, I would not have guessed.

JG His book is basically all about lying. It’s about capitalism in the United States. The civic type of capitalism that we have is all based on lies, big and little, and manipulation. The whole culture is built around advertising and getting people to think that they need to live a certain life and that they need to have all these things that they don’t really need. It’s all about this horrible marriage of the Bible and the American flag, which are two totally mutually exclusive things.

MS Do you think being in Iceland has given you a different or broader perspective on your life in America? Has the distance changed how you see it, especially with family and friends still there?

JG I mean, of course. There are some huge changes taking place. It seems like the whole world is moving toward fascism. It’s weird not to be there. It’s easy to just be in your own little community and not really notice anything that’s going on. Of course, these days, with social media and everything, it’s almost impossible not to be affected by the onslaught of information. It’s interesting that having access to everything, instead of making you more aware, seems to have the opposite effect. It seems to make it impossible to really know what’s going on. I think the only thing that we can do, and I’m sure a lot of people do this already, is concentrate on the moment and be with the people that you’re with and do what you can in your own community.

MS Do you think the album will resonate differently with an Australian audience compared to an American one? Learning where the title comes from really unlocked a new perspective for me. It adds a whole new layer.

JG I think a lot of the themes are universal. We all have a unique experience in the world. We have a lot of things in common, too. We all have access to the same emotions. It’ll be fun to see if it resonates with people. I hope that it does.

MS When it comes to revealing vulnerable parts of yourself in your music, do you find it easier to be truthful or to fictionalise? Is everything you create rooted in personal experience, or do you invent scenarios?

JG I don’t really make up scenarios. But of course, every single thing is memory, except for the second that you’re living in right now, which goes by like that. I would say that the scenarios are true. But often, much like writing a screenplay, you can use different methods to piece the information together, creating small narratives inspired by your experiences.

MS What does cinematic sound mean to you? It’s clearly a big influence—the idea of film, soundtracks. Can you talk more about that?

JG I love the way sound transforms things. Having said that, I don’t like things that are manipulative. I like things that are complementary. There are a lot of times when the only thing that we’ll do is silence. The best sound to accompany a certain scene in a movie is often silence. I like the way that music and soundtracks outside of the context of the movie can transform your surroundings. Soundtracks have always been a big deal to me ever since I saw Halloween 3. I bought that cassette in the early ‘80s and would walk around with my Walkman listening to it. I remember watching a beautiful sunset in California and listening to that horror music. It was a really transformative experience for me. Ever since then, I consider songs to be little films rather than pieces of pop music.

MS I really like that perspective—thinking of your work in terms of films. I hadn’t considered it that way before. It seems like you approach your artistry as a storyteller through sound. You mentioned earlier that you create narratives in your songs. Would you say you see yourself as a storyteller of sound?

JG I’ve never really thought about it that way. I don’t know if I’m necessarily trying to do anything specific. I think what draws me to music and art is the ability to catch glimpses of another human experience. Every experience matters and is important, yet at the same time, we’re all just one among billions, equally significant and insignificant. For me, creating is a way to leave a mark. To say, this one human had this particular experience and expressed it in this way. It’s a way to be seen and heard. When I was younger, I sometimes felt invisible, while at other times, I wished I could be invisible. It’s a strange contradiction. I suppose my music is a way to express that. To put my experience out there without any filters.

MS Are there any personal confessions you’ve shared in your music, particularly on The Art of the Lie, that have made your experiences and emotions more visible? I know that’s a big question.

JG Yeah. For example, in the song ‘Father,’ the last verse reflects on growing up in the United States in a community that emphasised teaching the Bible, following its rules and adhering to what was called the gospel, the gospel of Jesus Christ. But over time, I realised that the real gospel, the one that held more power, was actually the gospel of capitalism, materialism and the American way of life. As a young gay man, I was told that who I was wasn’t acceptable, that I needed to change if I wanted a life worth living. But as I got older, I started to see that many of the people preaching these ideas didn’t even fully believe in them themselves. That realisation made me question why I spent so much time worrying about something that even they didn’t truly stand by. And how much I had allowed it to shape my life. In a way, it’s a warning: to think for yourself, to question everything.

Of course, that’s hard to do as a child. You don’t yet have the tools to challenge those ideas and figuring out what you truly believe can take a lifetime. That was a huge part of my experience, and it’s why The Art of the Lie as a title means so much to me.

To me, art is personal. I struggle with the desire to be perceived in a certain way, but if you focus too much on that, you lose the essence of what you’re doing. Art has to come from a place of truth and express your own unique experience.

MS That was really beautiful. I feel like I’m learning so much more hearing you talk about this album. You wouldn’t get all of this just from the short bio I had access to. It’s so layered.

JG There are definitely a lot of layers, that’s for sure.

MS That leads into talking about the music itself and how it’s constructed. Your lyricism, as you mentioned, is layered, and I can tell your mind works in a similar way. Your music integrates orchestral and electronic elements. How do you approach combining these two styles? What’s the reasoning behind it?

JG My brain is constantly trying to distil all the things I love. My most formative years were in the ’70s and ’80s, especially in terms of music. I fell in love with synthesisers, and even today, there’s an endless world of electronic music to discover. I don’t really consider myself a great musician. I don’t think I excel at any one thing. I’m not a great pianist, but I can do what I need to for my music. It’s more about bringing together all these different influences. I started out playing classical music, which I loved, but I was also drawn to new wave, and that love has never faded. I’m equally in love with Bach and Devo. I can’t get enough of either.

I suppose I’m always trying to synthesise all these elements into my own sound. I don’t know how successful I’ve been at that. Sometimes, it just feels like a chaotic mix of styles because there are so many things I love. I guess the trick is trying to do all of the stuff that you love and still make a cohesive sound. I feel, to some extent, I did that successfully for this record, even though there are all these disparate styles at play.

MS I also wanted to ask about your collaboration with Ivor Guest and how that influenced the direction of the album.

JG Well, I think his role was more about guiding the musicians and helping me shape the sound into something more cohesive. We had a lot of fun making this record—just marvelling at the incredible musicians we worked with and their skill and talent. We also listened to a lot of music throughout the process, and there was a real sense of joy in creating the album. Of course, some parts of it were quite heavy, but overall, it was a great experience. I’d definitely work with him again.

MS Looking at today’s environment, not just in the U.S. but around the world, how important do you think it is to share these stories? What do you hope it means for others? And has expressing this through your music been healing for you in any way?

JG That’s a good question. I’m not sure I can fully answer it. I hear from people who appreciate the music and connect with the story being told and knowing that it resonates with them means a lot to me. That’s a beautiful thing. As for healing myself, I’m not sure. With everything happening in the world right now, it feels like a lot of old wounds have been reopened. But I do think it’s important to keep seeking healing because you can’t stay stuck in that frame of mind forever. You have to move forward, allow healing to happen, and find a way to live with strength and compassion so you can give back, right?

John Grant will be performing at WOMADelaide on March 8 and 9. On March 11, he will take the stage at Sydney's City Recital Centre alongside Bonny Light Horseman. He will then perform at Melbourne Recital Centre with Luluc on March 13, followed by a show at Fremantle Arts Centre with Rachael Dease on March 15.