Duckwrth (real name Jared Leonardo Lee) is an American rapper and singer whose sonic influences span from emo to hip-hop. His bold self-styled aesthetic is firmly footed in the fashion world, having featured in campaigns for the likes of Loewe, Camper and adidas. He is also no stranger to the runway pews at major fashion weeks. His new album, All American F*ckboy, is an exploration of reckless desire and self-destructive impulses and the painful journey to self-love. From a car park in Melbourne, Mark Bo Chu caught up with Lee online as he was driven through the highways of Los Angeles.

MARK BO CHU You’re in the car?

JARED LEONARDO LEE Yeah.

MBC I’m also in the car!

JLL Come on! Car buddies.

MBC Is your eye make-up slightly different from how you usually have it?

JLL This is my first time doing it like this. I have a little tattoo right there (points to eye). I couldn’t let it go this way.

MBC Normally, it’s like a full star, with your eye acting as the fifth leg. Do you do all your own make-up?

JLL Pretty much. I’ve worked with a make-up artist in the past, and we figured out how to do the look together. She gave me some tips because she wasn’t always going to be around. So, I figured out how to do it. I’m still learning how to actually properly clean my face. It’s still fairly new.

MBC Do you wear the make-up when you’re not inhabiting the Duckwrth persona? When you’re just Jared?

JLL Yeah. If I’m feeling cheeky and I just wanna wear a new skin, I put some make-up on. I’ll do different variations, like a line going down or something. I can flip it in so many different ways.

MBC How did you come up with the stars? Is it referencing a flag or something?

JLL It’s more so a nod to Paul Stanley from Kiss and Ziggy Stardust. All these iconic, classic rock artists had a make-up look, which I thought was cool. Also, the goth and punk scene out here in LA do black make-up looks. So, it’s definitely a nod to the goth and punk kids out here.

MBC You’re talking about David Bowie, punk, and Kiss. Your music also has elements of rock, alternative rock, Green Day, trip hop. There are also influences of Neptune's productions, or even Dilla. You must listen to a whole tonne of different shit?

JLL My musical palette is pretty vast. I could only listen to gospel when I was young. And then my dad was listening to jazz, so then I got into jazz that way. And then my sister was listening to hip hop and neo soul. So that’s how I got into that. Later on, I was kicking it with these girls who were listening to emo and punk. And that’s how I got into that. It's always been a process of someone showing me music and me then falling in love with it. And the music was also reflective of where I was in my life at that time. I was looking to rebel because everybody looked the same and did the same shit. I just needed something that was distinctly radical and distinctly different and very much a ‘fuck you.’ A teen angst 17-year-old ‘fuck you,’ you know?

MBC Do you still feel that ‘fuck you’ feeling?

JLL Definitely. But I don’t care as much. I skinned my head when I was in high school and had a Mohawk and had all types of different colours. All those patterns I’d be wearing. These days, I think men in make-up are still being accepted, you know? I literally am the only Black man I know who wears it.

MBC Is it that men in make-up are associated with a stereotyped sexuality?  

JLL If you do anything outside the norm, it’s seen as reflective of your sexuality. But I think it’s very small-minded to think that someone’s sexual preference can be based on their garment.

MBC Do you think it is uniquely American to not be able to differentiate someone’s personality from their appearance? 

JLL No. That’s just the world via the Internet. Like, when you go to Japan, stuff that was in my hood, like Pelle Pelle and Karl Kani, is being resold for like $300. You know? It’s hard to tell who a person is based on their garments because a lot of people dress alternatively but don’t listen to alt music.

MBC How does your life in music blend with fashion?

JLL The lines are really blurred between Duckwrth and Jared. Duckwrth is an excuse to show all the colours. For whatever reason, I’m kinda bashful. I’ve battled with not being a shy person. Duckwrth is an excuse for me to be extroverted. It all goes hand in hand. Like, the fashion is the music. It’s the design. It’s the expression. It’s all just tied in. It just depends on how big I wanna go, you know?

MBC Was there a time in your life when Duckwrth was just desperate to get out?

JLL It was always there. Duckwrth was just a way to put the golden arches on the fries, you know. To put the logo on it, to package it up and to make it digestible, I suppose. I don’t know if it was my upbringing. But as long as I can remember, I’ve always felt like an alien from everybody else.

MBC Your new album is called All American F*ckboy. Do you think anyone doesn’t know what a fuckboy is?

JLL Maybe like my mum and my mum’s generation?

MBC Is being a fuckboy a bad thing?  

JLL It’s terrible! Nothing good from that.

MBC Does it have to involve deception?

JLL That’s in the spectrum of being a fuckboy, for sure. Deceit.

MBC So, it’s not just a man who sleeps with a lot of women?

JLL A fuckboy is a kind of energy, or like an aesthetic. Like, Justin Bieber can be seen as a fuck boy. But he ain’t out here sleeping with mad women. It’s just like a certain energy. A corny dude, you know, who overcompensates. In my sense, I’m not leaning towards the corny side. I’m leaning more towards the promiscuous, womaniser side.

MBC So, for you, is ‘fuckboyness’ about being promiscuous in a kind of overcompensating, desperate, insecure way?

JLL That’s a great way of putting it. A big portion of me making this project is about giving my backstory and telling everyone how I became my version of a fuckboy. I was definitely shown bad examples of commitment at an early age and was cheated on pretty harshly. Those experiences created a level of distrust with other people, distrust with men and distrust with women.

MBC I heard you say you were living the life of a fuckboy, but you didn’t realise, and then it clicked.

JLL I didn’t realise because I was being applauded. Men are applauded when we’re womanisers. In the generation I grew up in, you were called a pimp, or a mac, or a gangster or something like that. You know?

MBC And you’re saying you shouldn’t be applauded for having sex with a lot of different people?

JLL Not just having sex with a lot of different people, but having a collection of different women. You have to ask yourself, ‘why?’. For me, sleeping with people came from a sense of insecurity. I felt validation and confidence from my potential with women.

MBC Are you a changed man now?

JLL I am changing. I think what lubricated those actions was drinking. A lot of the time, when you’re in specific environments and you’re drunk, you get kinda, for a lack of better words, horny. And now that I don’t drink, it’s like, you know what? Imma go home.

MBC It sounds like you were drunk and were more open-minded, but not necessarily in a good way. Was the sex as good?

JLL You know the saying? Sex is sex.

MBC What does that mean?

JLL There are two different types of sex for me. Like, you know post-nut clarity?

MBC I haven’t heard of it.

JLL It’s pretty much, at least for men, after you have an orgasm, you come back to your senses. Like, you can spend days, weeks, or months pursuing someone and lying to yourself that it’s more than that when it’s honestly about just wanting to sleep with them. Then post having the orgasm, you’re like, Mmm, wow, I didn’t really need to do that. You know? I think the difference between that and sleeping with someone you actually care for is that after you have an orgasm, and hopefully they have an orgasm too, there’s a sense of aftercare, you know? There’s cuddling, maybe TV watching, maybe you come out and go to the kitchen, cook something up. You don’t feel like, ‘damn, I didn’t really need to do that.’ You know? It’s more loving.